Habakkuk 1:5 Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. -LORD God
A shout of thanks to Trey Smith for the kind words and comments.
September 23rd 2017 (often called “Revelation 12 sign”) is NOT “the END” nor is it the “RAPTURE”. North Korea / Kim Jung Un in prophecy with Revelation 12. This video is likely the BEST FULL BREAKDOWN of what ALL the prophecy means (including North Korea, America, and Israel tied into the prophecy).
September 23rd 2017 is NOT the RAPTURE.
September 23rd 2017 is NOT the END.
North Korea and Kim Jung Un specifically mentioned within same tape of Kim Clement prophecy about the (or what is called) “Revelation 12 sign”. North Korea and Kim Jung Un are referenced as issues arising following what Kim Clement describes as a time when people are focused on a GREAT SIGN (like the Revelation 12 sign). Kim Clement also gives hopeful news in prophecy about the issues with North Korea and Kim Jung Un in his (Clement’s) prophecy.
Revelation 12: This video — from start to finish — is probably Trey Smith’s most powerful presentation on Signs in the Heavens, What those mean, and where we are prophetically in terms of “End Times”.
Revelation 12 Sign: A Kim Clement tape from 2009 has been discovered where Kim Clement goes over what appears to be the Revelation 12 Sign.
Revelation 12 Sign: What happens on September 23rd 2017?
Revelation 12 Sign: This video containing prophecy by Kim Clement, commentary by Trey Smith (on the Rapture and Revelation 12 sign) takes the position that the rapture does NOT occur on September 23rd 2017.
However, this video does take the position that Scottie Clarke did discover a sign (Great Sign, or Revelation 12 Sign) which is of Biblical and prophetic significance.
Prophecy by Kim Clement is shared in this video which appears to lend credibility to the “Revelation 12 sign”; but, predicts revivals and prosper for America while entering the “End Times” (a term which could be applied to a relatively vast time-period).
Revelation 12: The main message of this video is repentance. That America and Christians around the globe need to come back to the Lord (Jesus Christ) and repent for their nation. The video is a call to repentance.
Numbers 29:1 ‘Now in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall also have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. It will be to you a day for blowing trumpets.
See also Leviticus 23:23-25.
Many believers are pointing to this Feast of Trumpets with great anticipation. Many believe the rapture will take place this fall 2017, September 23rd to be specific. The foundation of the theory is the Virgo alignment in the heavenlies which is consistent with Revelation 12:1. Present company is not included in this thought.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Let’s cross the time and cultural divide from our place in the 21st century in western society. We are going back at least 2,000 years and upwards of 3,600 years ago. The Biblical text was written in an agrarian Middle East society. There are three languages involved: English, Greek, and Hebrew.
Judaism recognizes three trumps: first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these named trumps represents a specific day. The “first trump” is blown on the Feast of Pentecost (Exodus 19:19). The “great trump” is blown on Yom Kippur and signals the return of Christ to Earth (Matthew 24:31). The “last trump” is synonymous with Yom Teruah or Rosh Hashanah (1 Corinthians 15:52). Resources: Festivals of the Jewish Year, Theodore Gaster; The High Holy Days, Herman Kieval.
The Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah is the only new moon observance. This is not some Old Testament warm and fuzzy tradition. God has a point and a reason. He has not forgotten. The Apostle Paul makes note of this holiday.
Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
God has singled out this appointed holiday for some big time fireworks! Judaism has been rehearsing this holiday for at least 3,600 years since Moses. Has the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed) connected the dots… (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.)
Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit fulfilled the spring feasts (all four of them to the day, hour, and minute…case closed). Resurrection and rapture on the Feast of Trumpets during the fall appointments??? The ultimate question is the year.
Has Jesus Christ covered your sin? If no, you have bigger problems than when He is coming back for His church.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Regardless of the day on the calendar…Be Ready for His return.
Regardless of what is or is not taking place in the sun, moon, and stars…Be ready for His return.
Live your life as if He would come tomorrow…Be ready for His return.
Jesus calls believers to be alert and watchful. Proclaim the redeeming power of Jesus.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
The argument is being made that the Virgo alignment in September 2017 is the same sign that is described in Revelation 12. That may very well be. But, whatever meaning that may have — it does NOT mean the rapture for a variety of reasons.
NOTE by Trey Smith: Although Biblical text can take wonderful journeys, and contain hidden messages, dates and mathematical enigmas…. At some level the text just means what it means. This particularly applies when listening to the very straight-forward words of Jesus Christ (even if they may mean the Feast of Trumpets of some year — and that date is ambiguous each time).
Matthew 24:36-37
No One Knows That Day and Hour
36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”
This text and statement above by Jesus Himself, is a VERY bold one.
In layman’s terms it means that by working out a rapture date — you’ve probably just guaranteed it’s not the rapture date. Additionally, the passage lends incredible support to the rapture carrying the model (in a type and shadow) of a Jewish wedding (which is the focus with much study of Paul Lehr’s book, Rapture: The Bride Redeemed).
Revelation 12 Text issues
Here is how Revelation 12 reads:
The Woman and the Dragon
12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” (This is the stopping point before we get to the possible rapture passage of the text).
<—– NOTE: This is the end of a sentence in what is describe as “parenthetical” passage (meaning the entire chapter as put forth under the “rapture theory” is a summary of a much longer timescale of events). So, under that very definition — each sentence can (and MUST) have vast amounts of time that transpire before the next sentence, event or idea. You have examples in the Bible where thousands of years pass between a single comma.
In a practical sense, if I gave you a “parenthetical” summery chapter of US history it might read: “The United States was born and George Washington was president. Then Barrack Obama came.” <—- You know without question these statements are separated by a vast ocean of time between.
Now beneath we continue Revelation 12 verse 5. We have to also assume the theological position (which may be correct or at minimum worthy of note) that this references the rapture as we continue after the break in the text, or list of events in the text.
Revelation 12 continued “And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. (Note: You know there has to be a leap in the text here following this period because the new sentence now rushes you to events at the middle of the tribulation. That means — at bare minimum — one would have to take a “mid-tribulation rapture” position) 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Summary of Trey Smith opinion
Paul and I (Trey Smith) have spent much time on many evenings looking at this September 23rd 2017 “sign”…. While on one hand it is impossible to ignore all the math, prophecies, and the unique sign above on such day; it is also impossible to believe its the rapture for a theological arsenal of reasons. Also, in a geopolitical sense — we’re just not quite there at the place yet the texts describe.
The Rapture Date: Is it September 23rd 2017… We believe the answer is STRONGLY NO
To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, I hope you are right. Personally, I hope this is the case. Come Lord Jesus. Let’s go! You will receive eternal fist bumps and high fives for one of the greatest calls in human history.
But there is this comment from Jesus…
Matthew 24:36 But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
See also Mark 13:32.
…that day and hour no one knows…Granted, this may be a veiled and figurative comment that possibly points to the Feast of Trumpets or Yom Teruah. Yes, it could be one of two days for the fall appointment pending the confirmation of the new moon.
…nor the Son…To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, the claim is being made you have been given divinely inspired revelation that not even Jesus Christ knows. And He is God. He died for all the sins of the world. Jesus put in some serious bloodshed and sacrificial effort. Christ claims He does not know.
…not even the angels of heaven…There are angels in Heaven in the presence of the Son and the Father in the throne room. They don’t know either.
And we are expected to believe God the Father has revealed one of the greatest calls in history to a select group of humanity in its current fallen state? Our glorification comes later at the event being predicted on said date.
One has to admit. That is an incredible and audacious claim. It may be the rapture is on for September 23, 2017 at the beginning of the Fall Appointment Feast of Trumpets. And maybe it’s not.
It has been said by those in support of the Rapture Fall 2017 camp, “This is not date setting.”
But it has also been said by those who hype this alignment claim to have a “high degree of probability” and are “certain” that the rapture happens in the “season” or “watch period” of this alignment.
For the record, I am not claiming to know the date of the rapture. But I do know, date setters are totally defeated in history.
All of that said, it would be a grave error to dismiss the future rapture event just because it does not happen when others claim it will. Make no mistake. The resurrection/rapture event will happen at some point in the future.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
The argument is being made that the Virgo alignment in September 2017 is the same sign that is described in Revelation 12. That may very well be.
To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, I hope you are right. Personally, I hope this is the case. Come Lord Jesus. Let’s go! You will receive eternal fist bumps and high fives for one of the greatest calls in human history.
But there is this comment from Jesus…
Matthew 24:36 But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
See also Mark 13:32.
…that day and hour no one knows…Granted, this may be a veiled and figurative comment that possibly points to the Feast of Trumpets or Yom Teruah. Yes, it could be one of two days for the fall appointment pending the confirmation of the new moon.
…nor the Son…To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, the claim is being made you have been given divinely inspired revelation that not even Jesus Christ knows. And He is God. He died for all the sins of the world. Jesus put in some serious bloodshed and sacrificial effort. Christ claims He does not know.
…not even the angels of heaven…There are angels in Heaven in the presence of the Son and the Father in the throne room. They don’t know either.
And we are expected to believe God the Father has revealed one of the greatest calls in history to a select group of humanity in its current fallen state? Our glorification comes later at the event being predicted on said date.
One has to admit. That is an incredible and audacious claim. It may be the rapture is on for September 23, 2017 at the beginning of the Fall Appointment Feast of Trumpets. And maybe it’s not.
It has been said by those in support of the Rapture Fall 2017 camp, “This is not date setting.”
But it has also been said by those who hype this alignment claim to have a “high degree of probability” and are “certain” that the rapture happens in the “season” or “watch period” of this alignment.
For the record, I am not claiming to know the date of the rapture. But I do know, date setters are totally defeated in history.
All of that said, it would be a grave error to dismiss the future rapture event just because it does not happen when others claim it will. Make no mistake. The resurrection/rapture event will happen at some point in the future.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
What time is it on God’s calendar? One thing is clear. Humanity has absolutely butchered the ability to mark time as God intended.
Look at all of the calendars. Gentile calendars are generally based on solar cycles. There is the Julian calendar. The Julian calendar is used by the Stellarium software system that many utilize for the Revelation 12 Sign in the heavens. In western society and here in the United States, our calendar is a Gregorian calendar. In 1582, Pope Gregory noted a difference in time as related to the equinoxes and solstices. This variance was affecting the ability to mark Easter accurately.
The Chinese have their calendar. Muslims have their calendar and on and on and on…
God says the first month is Nisan in the spring.
Exodus 12:1-2 Now the Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt,“This month shall be the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year to you…”
What do the Jewish people do? The Jewish people have two calendars. There is a civil calendar and a religious calendar. The spring month of Nisan is the beginning of the religious or spiritual year in a Hebrew calendar. The beginning of the civil year is the seventh month of Tishri in the fall. A Hebrew Year always contains 12 Hebrew months in a regular year or 13 Hebrew months in a leap year.
The modern day Sanhedrin recognizes there is an error with the current time keeping system as ordained by God. Prior to the 4th century, the calendar was determined by observation. The calendar has been calculated mathematically since 4th century. Years are numbered from creation. Error occurred when man strayed from observation and started calculating.
“Even though the calendar needs to be adjusted, unity is of the utmost importance. Jews are required to adhere to the calendar accepted by the entire nation. Until a formal Sanhedrin is accepted by the nation, Jews must use the established calendar and observe the holidays on the days mandated by rabbinic authorities,” Rabbi Hillel Weiss, Sanhedrin Spokesman.
Do you have confidence in any aspect of humanity to accurately tell time as God intended? As a people, are we sure we are accurate in our understanding of what we are seeing in the sky and how it relates to the timing of events?
Please understand, I hope the Rapture Fall 2017 is right. That would be awesome. Let’s get an eternity of bliss started. There are good men who have spent countless hours of dedication and excellent scholarship on the Revelation 12 Sign. That needs to be recognized.
It also needs to be recognized there are others who have looked into the Revelation 12 Sign. And some of us respectfully question and/or disagree with the timing of the rapture in regards to the date presented (September 23, 2017).
Questioning and/or disagreement does not make us heretics because we differ. I am a sinner. I am a flawed man. The space between my ears is a dangerous place. Jesus Christ died for all of my sins. He was buried. And Jesus rose from the dead on the third day according to the Scriptures. I/we are all members of the bride and body of Christ in His good news. This is what is important.
I personally believe the resurrection/rapture event will take place on the Feast of Trumpets or Yom Teruah. To me, the issue is the year. There are some who make excellent arguments for the rapture during the Feast of Weeks or Pentecost. It is called Shavout in the Hebrew. I was once in the Pentecost rapture camp. I was first taught the rapture event is “imminent” and it could happen at any moment. Our salvation is not dependent on us understanding the Revelation 12 Sign.
We should be ready for our gathering to Christ in the clouds regardless of what is in the sky on any given date. Be ready. Stay ready regardless of what does or does not happen on any day!
A pastor I know made a common sense statement on matters such as the Revelation 12 Sign. “Good men can respectfully disagree.”
Dig in on your own with the Holy Spirit. Encouragement to study the Scriptures is highly recommended.
Acts 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
One of the customs of the 40 day period of Teshuvah is to visit a cemetery. Jewish belief is the resurrection will occur during the period of Teshuvah. Specifically, the resurrection is to occur on the new moon holiday of the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah. Christians refer to this as the Feast of Trumpets.
The Revelation 12 Sign occurs within the 40 day period of Teshuvah in the Gregorian year 2017 on September 23rd. Rosh Hashanah or the Feast of Trumpets will start the civil Hebrew year 5778. When the new moon is identified by two witnesses and confirmed by the high priest, this will initiate Tishri 1.
The notion the rapture is a signless event is false. The rapture is not the next imminent prophetic event. Scripture is very clear. The resurrection of the dead comes before the rapture. The dead in Christ will rise first and ascend into Heaven before the rapture occurs. Yes, there is a historical event that will precede the rapture. It is the resurrection. The Apostle Paul points this out on two occasions.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
The idea of sleep communicated by the Apostle Paul is physical death. When we die, our body is buried and sleeping in the ground like a seed as stated earlier in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. Sleep implies the body will wake up at some point in the future.
The new information conveyed is we will not all sleep. Translation, believers will not all physically die. The sequence of events is described next. One, the dead will be raised imperishable (resurrection). Two, believers in Jesus who are alive and remaining…we will be changed (rapture).
The order of events is confirmed a second time in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. The resurrection happens first. Then the rapture occurs second. Dead believers go first.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Living believers will be tipped on the coming of the rapture by the resurrection of the dead. The issue is the time gap between the two events. The time frame between the resurrection and rapture is not stated. There is no time marker. It could be seven seconds or seven years or whatever. The text does not say. But, the resurrection of the dead in Christ does come first. I suppose the timing of the two events would be relative to “imminent”.
When the inhabitants of planet earth see thousands upon thousands of people arise from their graves and rise into the air, this will cause a variety of responses which will likely include chaos and confusion. This is not the Zombie Apocalypse the culture is expecting. Living believers should know their ascent into the clouds to join the resurrected and Jesus Christ is next in the order of events.
Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Pockets of the Christian community are buzzing about this verse. This fall on the Feast of Trumpets also known as Yom Teruah, this configuration of heavenly bodies will form in the sky. Many think that because this “sign” is appearing on and around the Feast of Trumpets, this points to the rapture on or near September 23, 2017.
The Greek word for “sign” is σημεῖον/sémeion. Per Strong’s Concordance it means: a sign, miracle, indication, mark, token.
HELPS Word Studies defines the term as following: a sign (typically miraculous), given especially to confirm, corroborate or authenticate; emphasizes the end-purpose which exalts the one giving it.
So the question becomes, does the “sign” indicate we have arrived at the destination of rapture of the church? Or does the “sign” indicate the event is approaching? When we are driving down the interstate, a sign says “St. Louis 250 miles”. There is also a sign that declares we have arrived in St. Louis. So where are we? Are we approaching rapture? Or is the rapture this Feast of Trumpets, September 23, 2017?
It is not the intent of the author to defend or articulate the position of those with this point of view. They can speak for themselves. It is my intent to give some points of consideration.
Statistical data regarding uniqueness of the event is unquestionable. Thanks to math of Johannes Kepler and his laws of planetary motion and physics, we are able to calculate the movement of heavenly bodies. The equations and calculations are run on computer software. The heavens are a finely tuned clock which can be run forward and backward.
The sign appears to be a once in 7,000 year event. If one subscribes to a literal seven day creation as stated in the Bible, the earth and universe are about 6,000 years old. This “sign” is a once in a creation event. It is a statistically rare astronomical event intentioned to get our attention. I am not getting in the way of that math assuming it is correct.
As human beings, we need to keep ourselves in check. We are fallen in our current state of humanity. We make mistakes. Rigid, inflexible dogmatic positions will lead to brokenness. And we do not possess the mind of God.
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. -The Lord God
Many of the folks supporting the Rapture Fall 2017 position utilize the internet program Stellarium.
But there are questions. Does the Stellarium software (or any other for that matter) take into account Joshua’s long day? How long was Joshua’s long day? Software can only apply what it knows in the present. There needs to be a known, accurate point of comparison in the past to confirm the math in the present.
Joshua 10:12-13 At that time Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.” And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
Kepler himself misapplied his math when looking for the Star of Bethlehem. He was off by about a year or two. My point is one or two years matters. To quote Einstein, “God does not play dice.” He is not loose or sloppy with His timing. God invented math.
This is the first in a series of posts regarding the Revelation 12 Sign.
The Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah is the only new moon observance. This is not some Old Testament warm and fuzzy tradition. God has a point and a reason. He has not forgotten. The Apostle Paul makes note of this holiday.
