Paul the Poke

Comments below by Trey Smith

Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

The argument is being made that the Virgo alignment in September 2017 is the same sign that is described in Revelation 12. That may very well be. But, whatever meaning that may have — it does NOT mean the rapture for a variety of reasons.

NOTE by Trey Smith: Although Biblical text can take wonderful journeys, and contain hidden messages, dates and mathematical enigmas…. At some level the text just means what it means. This particularly applies when listening to the very straight-forward words of Jesus Christ (even if they may mean the Feast of Trumpets of some year — and that date is ambiguous each time).

Matthew 24:36-37

No One Knows That Day and Hour

³⁶ “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. ³⁷ For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”

This text and statement above by Jesus Himself, is a VERY bold one.

In layman’s terms it means that by working out a rapture date — you’ve probably just guaranteed it’s not the rapture date. Additionally, the passage lends incredible support to the rapture carrying the model (in a type and shadow) of a Jewish wedding (which is the focus with much study of Paul Lehr’s book, Rapture: The Bride Redeemed).

Revelation 12 Text issues

Here is how Revelation 12 reads:

The Woman and the Dragon

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.² She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.³ Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. ⁴ Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. ⁵ She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” (This is the stopping point before we get to the possible rapture passage of the text).

<—– NOTE: This is the end of a sentence in what is describe as “parenthetical” passage (meaning the entire chapter as put forth under the “rapture theory” is a summary of a much longer timescale of events). So, under that very definition — each sentence can (and MUST) have vast amounts of time that transpire before the next sentence, event or idea. You have examples in the Bible where thousands of years pass between a single comma.

In a practical sense, if I gave you a “parenthetical” summery chapter of US history it might read: “The United States was born and George Washington was president. Then Barrack Obama came.” <—- You know without question these statements are separated by a vast ocean of time between.

Now beneath we continue Revelation 12 verse 5. We have to also assume the theological position (which may be correct or at minimum worthy of note) that this references the rapture as we continue after the break in the text, or list of events in the text.

Revelation 12 continued “And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. (Note: You know there has to be a leap in the text here following this period because the new sentence now rushes you to events at the middle of the tribulation. That means — at bare minimum — one would have to take a “mid-tribulation rapture” position) ⁶ The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Summary of Trey Smith opinion

Paul and I (Trey Smith) have spent much time on many evenings looking at this September 23rd 2017 “sign”…. While on one hand it is impossible to ignore all the math, prophecies, and the unique sign above on such day; it is also impossible to believe its the rapture for a theological arsenal of reasons. Also, in a geopolitical sense — we’re just not quite there at the place yet the texts describe.

https://godinanutshell.com/2017/09/12/september-23rd-2017-what-does-it-really-mean/

Article below by Paul Lehr

The Rapture Date: Is it September 23rd 2017… We believe the answer is STRONGLY NO

To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, I hope you are right. Personally, I hope this is the case. Come Lord Jesus. Let’s go! You will receive eternal fist bumps and high fives for one of the greatest calls in human history.

But there is this comment from Jesus…

Matthew 24:36 But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

See also Mark 13:32.

…that day and hour no one knows…Granted, this may be a veiled and figurative comment that possibly points to the Feast of Trumpets or Yom Teruah. Yes, it could be one of two days for the fall appointment pending the confirmation of the new moon.

…nor the Son…To those who support and advocate for Rapture Fall 2017, the claim is being made you have been given divinely inspired revelation that not even Jesus Christ knows. And He is God. He died for all the sins of the world. Jesus put in some serious bloodshed and sacrificial effort.  Christ claims He does not know.

…not even the angels of heaven…There are angels in Heaven in the presence of the Son and the Father in the throne room. They don’t know either.

And we are expected to believe God the Father has revealed one of the greatest calls in history to a select group of humanity in its current fallen state? Our glorification comes later at the event being predicted on said date.

One has to admit. That is an incredible and audacious claim. It may be the rapture is on for September 23, 2017 at the beginning of the Fall Appointment Feast of Trumpets. And maybe it’s not.

It has been said by those in support of the Rapture Fall 2017 camp, “This is not date setting.”

This is an observation by Phil Kulis who writes for https://paulthepoke.com.

But it has also been said by those who hype this alignment claim to have a “high degree of probability” and are “certain” that the rapture happens in the “season” or “watch period” of this alignment.

For the record, I am not claiming to know the date of the rapture. But I do know, date setters are totally defeated in history.

All of that said, it would be a grave error to dismiss the future rapture event just because it does not happen when others claim it will. Make no mistake. The resurrection/rapture event will happen at some point in the future.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/731160

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